Thanks for the clarification, Brent. This was very similar to my experience. Do you know if the church took down the names of all the 7th East Press people? These other people that had experiences dont seem to have a similar backlash evident. I am very excited to announce that I will soon be interviewing Brent Metcalfe. Growing up I only had positive interactions with his beautiful wife and kids. Three or four episodes were mentioned by John. He eventually concluded that the document was not an actual historical account and compiled a book of essays suggesting the same, entitling it New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, published in the 90s. According to Krakauer, the letter said something to the effect of, Mark wont talk to you, but I will, and you definitely want to talk to me. That response introduced Krakauer to the Laffertys and gave him the story he needed to animate what he considered his analysis of radical faith. Afraid that Brent would go public with the contradictory information, the LDS church terminated him as a member. [4] Metcalfe assisted Hofmann in leaking the existence of the letter to the press, contrary to the wishes of the LDS Church. As an atheist I am not without my own inconvenient truths. Release Calendar Top 250 Movies Most Popular Movies Browse Movies by Genre Top Box Office Showtimes & Tickets Movie News India Movie Spotlight. Brent Lee Metcalfe's Assumptions and Methodologies Reviewed by William 1. In Part 1, Brent talks about his early days in the Church and his time working for Church security. Metcalfe (ed. As a personal friend and research assistant for both Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, Brent Metcalfe watched the whole episode unfold right before his eyes. And Im speaking as a believer- in the very traditional sense- in the Christian interpretation of the world. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. 497: Brent Metcalfe Part 3 -- After the Hofmann bombings and his excommunication (2014 Podcast Episode) Plot Showing all 0 items Jump to: Summaries It looks like we don't have any Plot Summaries for this title yet. It is those moments of intimacy that really help me connect to the humanity of the interviewee. She was in the middle of her frustrations with the MTC (and some of you know the story). [9] When it became rumored that Metcalfe had lost his belief in the historical claims of the LDS Church, Christensen terminated the project and fired Metcalfe. I devoutly attended BYU in the mid 70s. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. I found this podcast to be very fascinating. @BHMetcalf. Awesome. They claim that it occurred here in the USA siting scriptures and other things Joseph smith said. Once you start to deconstruct Mormonism, the next step is Christianity, and then the existence of a god, or not There are plenty of stops along that road to hang your hat, but the fastest growing belief system around the existence of god, is atheism. It didnt have anything to do with church history or anything you would read in something like the CES letter, but was instead a realization and acceptance that its not me, its the church followed by a complete collapse of everything. :). What academic qualifications does Mr. Metcalfe have to authoritatively speak on subjects like the historicity of the Book of Abraham? Few people had more of a front-row seat than Brent Metcalfe to the goings-on surrounding Mark Hofmann, the Salamander Letter, and the tragic events of October 1985 what would be dubbed as the Mormon Murders.. Oh. Come to the dark side and tell your story. It seems to me that going with what you may think everyone around knows is right (even if it isnt) more easily allows for these kinds of experiences more than realizing there are differences of opinion and thought and then vying for spiritual confirmation. [1], In the early 1980s, Metcalfe contributed to the Seventh East Press and Sunstone, while at the same time worked as a security guard at the Church Office Building of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). They are in a tough spot. Before Mark Hoffman was exposed as a forger, was there anything that made you wonder how he managed to make so many great finds? I just got done reading the book Mormon murders. In another post Ill comment on the Mark Hoffman affair. But such intellectual issues didnt play a role in my failure of faith. You seem to be back on your game of simply inviting your guests to tell their stories. All of these documents are available on the Joseph Smith Papers Project website. Thanks, John and Brent! All rights reserved. Please let us know. I was going to ask the same thing. As coincidence would have it, a few months later I became her home teacher. She is professor emeritus of history at Read more There is a newish movement who rejects that the book of mormon ever occurred in South America. Let me be equally clear that I dont believe that the BoAbr is an authentic translation of the papyri he possessed. If so, what will be the subject? What is your spirtuality/worldview like post-Mormonism? Published by on October 31, 2021. What are your views about these books and how some contemporary Mormon scholars approach them as catalytic for revelation, though they may not specifically be historical? Categories . I was nervous that you belonged to the catalyst crowd and relieved to hear your developed belief, or non belief. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. When?? Should have added one more minor thing. I think that the Salt Lake LDS church is concerned with becoming the RLDS church, which has changed its narrative to a very noncompelling one, and about 80% of its members have left. Serious insight and analysis of the religion Im trying to fit into my new, authentic life. But being new to the church and so unacquainted with church matters and such things I was not much help. When Brent Metcalfe compiled a book of essays last year suggesting that Mormonism's founding scripture wasn't the ancient history it purports to be, he expected some criticism. On the term translation, JS promoted his ancient texts as translations in the traditional sense. Its a band called The Lower Lights. Im sure there is a very good possibility that COB personnel would have been more suspect of Jerald, and any information he offered, than Hofmann. Dave, Ive planned on publishing a book for years; but Ive decided to publish a series of articles first that the book will build upon. When discussing some of the details surrounding the Book of Abraham, he mentioned the Tale of Onidas and Kitumen. I have never heard of that before and cannot find anything about it. I remember one time a BYU professor handed me a long quote to read out loud to the class when I walked in and I almost had the first major public panic attack of my life. I have some insights into that. Thanks again Brent! Do you still believe in God, and what type of God? hillside christian church staff/ brent metcalfe excommunicated Create a Word Cloud at Tagxedo.Com. Do you have any idea what his views are now about the church, what he did, etc.? Brent Metcalf, who has been through personal tragedy, triumph and uncertainty can now call himself a national champion. Signature Books. 1. In this fascinating conversation Brent details that while working for Church security he was working on scholarly endeavors that he hoped would help contribute to apologitic defenses of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Because researchers like me are not taken seriously by them, even if we have serious and significant contributions. Hamblin Methodological discussions have become commonplace in Mormon studies. During my 7779 mission I served in two London areas, living first in Kilburn Park and later in Wimbledon. This negative sentiment is perhaps made up for by Hofmann's victims. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. An anonymous source reported that Roy Doxey, then the director of church correlation, wanted to know about the papers Metcalfe was studying at the Church Historical Library, which were on Elias Smith and others. Do you attend church anyplace else? Every metric you can imagine points to the same conclusion: from Paul VI forward, Catholicism has gone into deep crisis. Not because it marked the end of the University of Iowa's senior's prestigious and highly . John and I are just trying to align our schedules, so expect parts 3 & 4 soon. He also talks about his early forays into Mormon studies. Looking around me, every object was changed, and a bright glory appeared on everything. What an amazing story that Brent was a participant. Metcalf served as the National Freestyle Developmental Coach prior to . In Episode 497, Brent Metcalfe shares an interesting fact that when Steve Christensen was called to be a Bishop that he told his Stake President that he would never excommunicate a member of his ward and if that was a problem that he wouldnt accept the calling. He was going to have him thrown out of the church. Now, in the wake of 200 years of such scholarship, the Bible doesnt hold up much better than the Book of Mormon. Are there still more episodes of this series on the way?? Youre one of the few secular critics of the church that can offer a really long perspective on challenges to Mormonisms truth claims. Im definitely a fan. I wish we could let go of the idea that a person can only be an expert in a particular field if they have a college degree saying they are. You guys at MS are doing great. When we taught the Book of Mormon story, it was part of our presentation. Once the Catholic scholar feels freed from the ostensible constraints of Catholic theology, it is questionable to what degree his scholarship is distinctively Catholic in the first place. Brent is a fascinating interview for Mormon Stories for many reasons, including: Please post your questions for Brent here. Why didnt the Lord reveal to the prophet that the documents were forged? Where we should push back is, if someone solely discredits someone without examples of where their information is wrong or flawed ie simply attacking the messenger instead of the message. It all depends on the depth of study one does. 1) In your opinion, which group is currently winning in their arguments regarding the truth claims of church, the critics or the apologetics? And you are an example. If I applied Vatican II to the full breadth of Catholicism, I clearly misspoke (Im not even sure why I would make such a sweeping claim, so I am a tad mystified). As soon as we can! She was very impressed with the level of esoteric teachings in the D&C and Pearl of Great price. And how was it working with Mr. Ritner? We had some technical difficulties. In Part 1, Brent talks about his early days in the Church and his time working for Church security. As a teenager and still TBM I read some books on the Hoffman Salamander Letter and events surrounding it. It is true that Mac Christiansen did pay for Marks sons mission. I was only 8 when Steve died, so I just remember his smiling face and that everyone, especially my parents, just loved him. It was torturous turning out essays to suit a particular lecturers preferences in order to gain high marks. I know about the September 6 and there are others. My good friend Matt Christensen digitized the 7th East Press and was kind enough to allow Signature Books to make it available on their incredible digital library. As a Mormon History and Rare Document Researcher, Brent Metcalfe has unparalleled knowledge of the religion and its connections in Utah. She related all this to me and my companion. Also, I appreciate you bringing up ADD. I was a newly returned missionary at BYU when all of this took place. End of my short story. I thought your essay in New Approaches was excellent, and certainly complicates traditional understandings of the Book of Mormon; you obviously dont believe the BoM is historical in any way, but Id also guess you would acknowledge the impressive complexity of it. I have heard that Mac Christianson financed the mission of one of Hofmanns sons. Lex, you might be interested in the work of Lance Owens. You didnt elaborate on that interpretation. This is a rumor I heard. Historian Brent Metcalfe says he was fired by the church out of fear he'd publish something they didn't like. "Mark deceived everyone," Co-director Jared Hess told Deseret News. If you were to write a book, what aspects of the Hofmann story would you focus on? You can have a PhD and still not have great knowledge. Near the end of a presentation you gave for the ExMormon Foundation, you said something to the effect of: People ask me how Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon, how he pulled it off, how it all came about. That piqued my interest in the whole sordid affair. If youre familiar with image editing, straying from objectivity reminds me of having a color cast in a photo. Thank you so much for the story and the insights. Im sure this applies to other beliefs as well. [4], In 1993 Metcalfe organized a group of scholars to publish a series of essays that sought to apply techniques of higher criticism to the Book of Mormon. As a personal friend and research assistant for both Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, Brent Metcalfe watched the whole episode unfold right before his eyes. Get all the information related to Cardinal Health Nps Online - Make website login easier than ever The membership on the website. Why do you think the church is so fearful, silencing members and burying facts ? Many years later in his interview with Dehlin, Brent Metcalfe tells of a conversation that he had with Mark E. Peterson where he plainly admits he was lying in his book. Dont know who the nuts are that Church Security referred to, but Jerald Tanner probably expressed the most legitimate concerns. Liked by Brent Metcalfe Experience Practice Lead - Mergers and Acquisitions/Investment Group and Consultant Backswath Management Sep 2022 - Present6 months Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Seeking New. Jn I have to assume hes simply speaking on the basis of snippets of information here and there without context, because this is clearly untrue. In these two episodes we discuss: 1) The aftermath of the Mark Hofmann bombings, and Brent's. And now, as per reports, Brent Metcalfe has been able to construct a healthy and happy life for himself outside of Mormonism, where he can continue to work as an independent scholar and technical editor without any issues or restrictions. Visit with the Skabelund family, 9:30-10:30 am,. It is his sixth season overall with the Cyclones after serving as the volunteer assistant for the 2017-18 season. The failure of faith concept was very interesting, and I can only say but for the grace of God. Yes! I sensed a full range of colors in the photo that is this interview. Post-Vatican II a renaissance of sorts occurred in scriptural exegesis (for example, scholars no longer felt compelled to affirm the priority of Matthew and they began reassessing the synoptic gospels and John more critically). My life has been enriched by theinquiries those books catalyzed. Im glad you found some of my remarks useful and thanks for the kind comments. When I was on my mission in the early 70s, we were encouraged to show a film called Ancient America Speaks. Brent Metcalf's last collegiate wrestling match was a highly anticipated one. It is not possible for me to tell how long I remained in that situation, as everything earthly was gone from me for some time. Ive struggled to understand the human mind in this regard. Good clarification, Doubting Thomas (if that is your real name), :) I have no reason to believe that Jerald Tanner attempted official contact, so Im not sure who Darrick is referring to or what the method of communication entailed. In the highly anticipated follow up to our first interview, Brent Metcalfe continues his story. And much was going on. Watch the full match. Brent Metcalf was a bad dude in high school. Robert Ritner, Egyptologist, wrote a recent book the Joseph Smith Papyri in which he acknowledges your encouragement for that project. Joseph didnt go like a lamb to the slaughter in burning down personal property he broke the law in a major way. Hearing Brent break down the Hoffman timeline and story was amazing. Not everyone who doubted the authenticity of Hofmanns forgeries did so for valid and sound reasons. Its a pity Joseph Smith couldnt sit them all down for a good coming-to-Jesus admonishing. [9] Metcalfe became a suspect himself at one point in time. It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Now that the new Netflix documentary Murder Among the Mormons has come out, it also validates the important witness that Brent was in this event. As someone told him, You didnt have a crisis of faith but a Failure of Faith. fireside chat september 3, 1939 summary . [9][10] His father was the managing director of the Temple Department for the LDS Church. Its great to find all this background information. The gift of your ADHD shines. Sandra was criticized by some Mormon Stories listeners for not being as critical of Christianity as she was of Mormonism. Other early-19thC religionists were even more literal in their descriptions. I just wish that I could undo everything. Despite this, though, Brent found the courage to keep his head held high and began delving deep into the issues surrounding the Book of Mormon, a topic that he had been looking to examine since the early 1980s. About a year or so ago when I finally left the church I looked him up to get advice and catch up on old times. He could have never imagined the true extent of Marks crimes, though. Ive always wondered why the most ardently orthodox and pious seem to have the least faith in the divinity and omnipotence of the Lords plan. I may have a chance to look for it next week, but Im not promising anything. I like Steve Christensens view on excommunication. Movies. Please, God, let this podcast inspire someone to produce a talk show called, Hot-tubbing with Mark Hoffman! Lance is a Gnostic priest and has written and spoken extensively on the Gnostic and esoteric flavor of Joseph Smiths writings. It is better thought of by non-Catholics (generally), but this has not translated into conversions or retention of cradle Catholics. After that day I moved to the back of the class and felt like the only straight A student retard at BYU. Hope all is good with you. hope my comment wasnt insensitive! What advice does Brent have for aspiring Mormon historians? Years ago, I attended a book reading and signing by Jon Krakauer in Marin County when he was promoting Under the Banner of Heaven. Seventh East Press. Yet a solid and detailed examination oflhe pre suppositions, methods, arguments, and conclusions of the vari ous readings of the Book of Mormon would still be very use I think that the LDS churchs main competitor in the marketplace of ideas is not a bigger tent more liberal church, its Agnosticism/atheism. She spoke of her life and what has happened in the 30 years since one of Utah's most infamous crimes, Thursday October 8, 2015. I understand the church spent large sums of money on BYU professors and private research to bolster the Book of Mormon claims through archeological discoveries.unfortunately they have not found what they had hoped for. My examples are numerous and heart breaking. Please share your feeling about this observation as well, and how this may affect future missionary work, growth of the church and most importantly the individual peace of mind of its members. I have that info direct from Mac himself. Reply. [4] His supervisor removed the probation, but on April 8 Metcalfe's employment was terminated. My epiphany also came suddenly, while driving, followed by a massive emotional experience. After admiring the glory of the Lamb for some time, I began to think of the situation my body was in, and rose up to return home. It seems there is some serious self deception that is required to work around these problems that are creating riffs in families, as well as individual conflicts of spiritual dissonance for good members and leaders of the church. After years of palling around with anti-Mormon apostates (e.g. In secret, behind closed doors, who were they really betting on? In Part 5, we explore the history surrounding Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham(one of the primary scriptural texts for the LDS Church). But I feel that sometimes secular scholars, perhaps in an effort to be diplomatic, perhaps for other reasons, underestimate and understate the inevitability of open conflict with a religious tradition they study.