However, the .45 would likely be stopped from penetrating but there was a 30% chance, with good shot placement its energy could stop the heart. I'll tell you what DOES impact penetrationit is the frontal area of the bullet and its relative friction and resistance as it impacts a body and attempts to travel through. and departments. Battlestar Galactica. 1SGT. Dan, your and many others comments ring true. According to the song the battle for New Orleans, canonbalks were fired from alligator mouths which showed resourcefulness. The ambulance took him away. I was in the military for 15 years Ive been through several handgun changes. As someone just coming in your home or coming at you out of the blue. I have the perfect picture for this: Those pins stayed in place for 18 months while the bone knit. It is a poor idea to keep your finger inside the 158 gr 0.38" Special plain lead bullet will only penetrate one side of a human skull. I read a study from an Army medic regarding one shot kills from a handgun. Physics says my 225 grain .45 ACP ,+P+ traveling at 1210 fps is more capable than ANY 9mm currently available. After decades of witnessing the 45 vs 9 mm battle. Lethality by Caliber: Whats the Best Handgun Caliber For You? Ive shot so many different weapons, started at the age of 11, hunted most of my life. Of course, smoothly drawing a handgun leads directly to another subject: which holster is best for those concerned with personal protection? Hence poor shot placement, causing a miss or worse the poor animal suffering a slow painful unnecessary death. Why bullet size matters in police shootings | PoliceOne.com The one magor factor that keeps deciding the outcome is if the victim or assailant has the actual ability to kill. Still, I think when we're talking about pistol caliber handguns, it's pretty hard to measure any substantial accuracy differences when we're rarely shooting at distances greater than 15-25 yards if that. You must have JavaScript enabled in your browser to utilize the functionality of this website. I guarantee with proper shot placement, either round will do. When the weather is colder and requires a jacket or coat, I carry my Glock 30s, extra mag for either. Officer Needs Help!!! I thought a 55 115lb girl with small hands would want a .380, so I was surprise when she chose a Walther PPS in 9mm. Even after suffering multiple 9mm gunshot wounds, victims are capable of fleeing considerable distances. I have a medical issue that makes it easier for me to carry a double action in a very small package. A 45acp will deliver more damage to a human body that a 9mm. Affiliate Disclosure-Terms of Use-Privacy Policy - Returns & Refunds - Shipping & Delivery - Affiliates, This story of a Chicago-suburb police officer. Multiple hits are extraordinarily unlikely. No vest..and since it was my idea.I Shoot First! But you have to shoot the gun your most accurate with and most comfortable with but if you dont seat the grip of any pistol in the web of the hand deeply all guns no matter what the caliber the gun will whip in the hand. I like how the author notes that the accuracy analogy is nonsense, thats true. We are currently looking for shooting survivors to discuss their experience and their recovery. Shooting survivors and their caregivers describe a lifetime of chronic pain, repeated surgeries years after being shot, and challenges to everyday living that come from losing parts of vital organs, like a woman who has to buy her son expensive protein shakes after he lost much of his stomach. Developed in the 1950s, this round combines high velocity with large bullet size. The primary result of permanent cavity damage is profuse bleeding. In those 53 years, weve built a reputation as one of Texass most trusted firearms dealers, and we did it in a state where sellers of used guns are almost as common as oil wells and prime rib. I assume that it is cost that is the main concern. One or two out of every twenty or more perfect placement leaves me desirous of a heavy hitter. Mine is easily concealable, accurate and has never failed to function. Whether it hits the shoulder, the leg, arm, hip, whatever. Please dont send me any hate mail. We report stories that would go untold. the article mentions that where a bullet hits the human body is also a major factor on whether it inflicts a mortal wound. Okay, I have to give them props on this part of the statement because this is 100% correct. But I think the bigger point to be made is that it would not be wise to make a decision on a pistol or caliber simply because it is bigger, and therefore more manly. It should be made based on the merits and actual performance of the different calibers and/or pistols. The .50 This would give them an edge regarding tissue displacement/destruction during a shooting incident where any advantage, however slight, would be welcome. for all the same reasons. WebThey could balance it by decreasing the damage of other pistol cartridges, like for example, Intermediate cartridges like 7.62x39/5.56x45 could one tap the upper torso and 2 tap lower torso, the .45 ACP could 2 tap torso, dealing just shy the amount of damage required to kill upper torso, include a large penalty with that. Clothing fibers can wrap the nose of a projectile, preventing expansion. Greater tissue displacement is likely to lead to more blood loss. Bullet coursing from behind the knee to my heel. Now as far as the technology of rounds go, technology has improved for all of the basic calibers including 45 so there is no advantage there for the 9. Now thats hilarious. Its only a pistol. .45 ACP FMJ doesnt normally make bad people flop to the ground instantaneously unless it hits the brain or spinewhich is probably what happened, given his skills. Let us know your thoughts in the comments below! With the continuation of the pussification of America we see so many in posotions of power making decisions that follow the continuation of that thinkinhg. According to the Marine Corps Times: For Marine special operators, the never-ending debate over whether the 9mm or .45-caliber round is the more powerful bullet has been settled. However, I purchased the 9 mm because for a carry gun I feel safer with the style of firearm I bought for daily carry purposes. Although it should be noted that Glock is manufacturing in the US now, Sig Sauer is as well. Shooting another person is only done with the intention to, at the very least, incapacitate the subject to protect the physical safety of others. In 30 years I saw a shit-ton of things. If Im in my own home in a self-defense scenario, at any distance, Im armed with a 12 gauge, and the whole pistol capacity and power debate is moot. Anyone using the term bullets to discuss weapon capacity knows little about firearms and has no business writing policy.on them. Head and neck shot were down on contact if the hit bone, flesh hit required another shot. If you have been hit with any kind of bullet large, fast, expanding, or otherwise please, Gunman Used Heavily Restricted Assault Weapon in California UPS Shooting. I enjoyed reading all of this info but didnt once read the real reason the .45 was originally better at stopping than the .36 cal. For me the argument is how the pistol or revolver feels in my hand and how accurately can shoot it. EVER! Hollow points also create a larger temporary cavity. This study is thus inherently flawed, as it ranks large shallow wounds above deeper ones. This remained the norm in the FBI until May 2014. Practice thats all it takes. Frank K. Seems to me that when using the same style bullet in the 45 and 9mm the 45 would still beat the 9 in stopping power. In the above GIF of ballistics gel taking a .50-cal. (stress free situation) I also have a sig, p38 and carry that when its warm out.hightly concealable in a alien gear holster. I meanwtf? I just got a glock30SF and im thinking of adding her to the g27 for my CC permit. Real world combatants or keyboard commandos. Died instantly. Math is absolute and backs what Ive stated. Not aim shoot. Many years ago in auto racing, there was a saying regarding power. He also competes in USPSA and 3-gun competitions including numerous top-10 finishes at major matches and championships. Now that has some stopping power and even at 600 yards. With a bone thats been shot with a standard-issue caliber handgun, youll see a break, a hole in the bone, and maybe some displacement. How about that..most people shot by handguns survive. There are two effects of electromagnetic waves on human body. Tests show that while it travels at 1,154 feet per second at 500 yards, slower than the .223 at that distance, the AKs bullet can deliver 370 foot-pounds of force, more than the AR. High-velocity And I can certainly understand WHY you would be led to thinking that switching to the Glock 21 would improve your chances of getting a stop. very obvious. I'd like to see the science on that one. Whats more, a temporary cavity measures volume that has been stretched, not volume that has been destroyed. I know the argument for +P with lighter bullets, but I settled on these because they meet my two most important criteria for defensive ammo penetration and accuracy. Its a High Point .40S&W. That has been the best comment so far. Everyone talking about knock down power verses speed seems like. I do believe that whether its a 9 mm or 45 caliber youve got to be accurate with the placement of that round otherwise youre just wasting shots. 0.22" Lead air gun pellet at 600 ft/s will penetrate 4' plate glass. I Have hair and an angular face. We souped up the 38 special to produce it .The 10 Auto was dumb ed down to create the 40sw. While the tissue affected by the temporary cavity isnt completely destroyed like that in the direct path of the bullet, it does suffer trauma, especially if the bullet travels past less-flexible parts of the body, like bone or dense organs like the liver, which can shatter or rupture from the shockwave. Possible off hand 200. What that means is that handgun bullets, as opposed to the devastating wound channels rifle projectiles can cause, are only just poking little holes in people. Should be Marine Commanders Have.. Each of the operators has his own preference. As mentioned in the article, the terminal ballistics of the modern 9mm is virtually the same as the .40S&W or the older .45ACP round but that is with modern 9mm JHP ammo. 9mm beats .45acp. They are fine weapons and are certainly capable as a sidearm. Of course providing as to the type of ammo. WebThe.45 acp proved an effective round with greatly improved stopping power. .45 in Nam and owned one for several years. Indeed, in some studies, such as one conducted by the Law Enforcement Assistance Administration (LEAA), the temporary cavity is assumed to be the primary handgun wounding factor. WebHuman Body 101 | National Geographic National Geographic 21.2M subscribers Subscribe 52K 3.3M views 5 years ago How does the human body work? The germans used 9mm forever and they know their guns and war making. But with the way things are going today I decided it was time, so I just bought S&W M&P 9 Shield. A tool yes but not a valid substitute. The 9mm isnt a garbage round but feeling better with these 230 grain Winchester Rangers loaded on my side. Without fragmentation, temporary cavity wounds can be relatively minor. Using the cone attack gives you a low ammo condition that imposes disadvantage on attack rolls until you reload, and you have 2 reloads per day. So many guns so little time! Maybe Obamas army should be issued paint ball guns so there is a non-lethal component too. Thanks. Never held a weapon till boot camp. Lee reloading gear. Growing up in Alaska, I have shot more than a fair share of big game. A 35-45 psi Now that you know where I am coming from. But in summer I have just discovered the Sig Sauer P938, a 9mm 7+1 with extended magazine. One person might be able to control themselves and squeeze off a headshot. A majority of FBI shooters are both faster and more accurate using 9mm Luger versus .40 S&W rounds. laugh at the forensic expert and 2.) However, from close enough range you could manage. and manufacturers. Very accurate and deadly, The bullet travels at 1450 FPS. Either will get the job done for protection. Because capacity equals TIME. Depends. If you throw it at someone, not so much. If its fired from a Thompson Submachine gun, its almost guaranteed to be lethal. But the major difference is that you would have been 2 rounds away from having to reload as compared to 6 rounds in the case of a Glock 17. The new .50Ae desert eagle has as much recoil as the 1911/M45 which is unrealistc (the .45 has alot less recoil). Great article by the way. Repeat over and over, and keep doing so even after proficiency is achieved. This is accomplished through simple physics; a larger bullet imparts more force into its target than a smaller one. For this reason, jacketed hollow point (JHP) ammo is the only realistic choice for those who carry a handgun for self-defense. And anyways I own a Kimber Colt 45 1911 with a muzzle breaker on it steel slide aluminum from and honey comb grips, I also own for my conceal Walther Q4 with tactical barrel. My Kimber .45 is one of my favorite pistols EVER, but its heavy and only has 8 rounds. So its definitely capable. If the Government is involved in any way, money will change hands. While psychological factors incapacitate more assailants than physiological factors, they are also the primary reason for a failure to incapacitate. There are a number of reasons for a failure to incapacitate, including a lack of awareness of the wound, intense personal fortitude, extreme emotions or physiological effects both natural (adrenaline) or chemically-induced (drugs such as PCP, heroin and cocaine). Lets say it is winter and a large person is wearing very heavy clothing. Para Ordnance 12-45, officer size 1911 .45acp with 12 or 14 rd mags. I still did like the 39-2 for CC. So how can we expect people to take a human life so readily? Going on 7 years Law Enforcement here with a rough Dept. He eventually was taken off life support 4 days later, open casket funeral. Example; a bb to the eyeball is very effective. However, in early 2015 the door was cracked open, allowing them to choose Glock 19's (chambered in 9mm) instead of their larger counterpart. Train, train train and when your done. I would easily give credit to the Colt 45 on reliability accuracy and range, my 9mm all it really does better is shoot faster because it has a 4 lb. If you take it in the field and get it dirty, see how easily serviceable that weapon is then. Trailing was easy in snow, but took nearly a mile to put down with another shot low through the heart. This post has been updated to include information released by the FBI regarding the weapon used in the shooting. Heart shot, rolled it on the spot. Copyright 2023 Police1. Handgun wounds include the first three of these factors, but generally do not include the fourth. Whatever happened to the body armor piercing 5.7 round- 20 in the mag, one in the pipe n if that aint enough, 30 round mag works great for me!!!! You can read all the FBI reports and all the ballistic gel crap you want. It's the most comprehensive and trusted online destination for law enforcement agencies and police departments worldwide. None used a big cal but all targets were immediately incapacitated and all targets were within 1foot to 20 feet away. 9mm. Supposedly he is firearms and forensic expert with the Rhode Island State Crime Laboratory. Among other things, this From my time in the USMC, I saw a certain population fall in love with the 9mm bc of its easier to handle recoil. No matter what caliber you are carrying, just remember that one of the keys to shooting through auto glass (whether from within or outside the vehicle) is to shoot as much as possible through the same hole.