This request is not currently in perfected status. P.S. You can listen along to ATC at liveatc.net and search for RDU in the upper left. ALL pilots know you have to hear the magic words, Cleared into Brovo. The Federal Aviation Administration publishes quarterly a compilation of enforcement actions against regulated aviation entities that are closed with either a civil penalty or issuance of a certificate suspension or revocation. Who knows what the FAA would consider a serious offense if we ever make a legitimate error? Mistakes happen. a responsibility to operate safely and competently within the FARs regardless of the price of your plane. That's a terrible thing to say, that a pilot should lose his license. He's a danger to us all and I don't want to share the sky with him. The Ultimate Guide On How To Become An Airline Pilot. Either that or he's going to get some very long vectors around special use airspace. Share sensitive information only on official, secure websites. Laws don't matter anymore. Just like the American pilots did when they couldn't get runway 31 at JFK. "LAS: "N1NR, I told you to remain outside the Bravo". He could have declared, he could have said he has a medical emergency, heck he could have said all sorts of things. On Reddit they doxed him. The craziest part in all of this is that when the pilot later talks to Henderson Tower after landing, the controller says I dont know what happened but from what you say, sorry for the service. I guess he was trying to be professional, but this is one of those cases where he was being too nice, given that the pilot was just about 100% in the wrong, while the controller was just about 100% in the right. Pilot deviation is a serious incident, and there can be lots of different outcomes depending on the exact situation. Either that, or "Karen" is the "wife" this aircraft is registered to in "Wife Approved LLC". In over 30 years of flying, I have sat and listened to amateur pilots give ATC professionals a load of sh*#. If he had a sick passenger he should have explained the situation to ATC better or at all. MuckRock users can file, duplicate, track, and share public records requests I dont see any defense to his behavior. Subject: FOIA 2020-007191WP DUE: 8/6/2020, 411A Highland AvenueSomerville, MA 02144-2516, Subject: Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Request 2020-007191WP. Student - he did get his private after 3 more months of practice. Even if you dont have a good understanding of ATC terminology, the situation should be easy enough to make sense of. What a name for a company! Federal Aviation Administration Anything that may seem like a clearance but does not resemble those exact words is not a clearance. I hope this guy is ready to hear a lot of "unable VFR services" or "radar services terminated, squawk VFR, frequency change approved" when they recognize who he is again. (https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=N731NR). and I think you are either that rude pilot or his wife. He flew the plane and student back, Mom advised student (he wanted to finish he's flight) he was done until she discussed it with IP and Dad as owner and Chief Pilot. But N1NR wants clearance nonetheless and is refusing to leave. I suggested they speak with the father and ask him if perhaps, she was a spoiled B. Caller - is he available, Only then did he comply with instructions. The aircraft, N731NR, is registered to "Wife Approved LLC." Heres the full ATC audio, should you want to listen to it (when you listen to it youll appreciate just how angry this guys tone is): Ive never heard ATC audio where a pilot is so disobedient to instructions. For a bit of background Bravo airspace or Class B airspace is the term for the airspace around the busiest airports in the country. Pull that @$$holes license and give him a huge fine. My father was an Air Traffic Controller when the accident happened over San Diego in 1979 (not the one on duty when the accident occurred) so I know just as much about the history of this airspace as you claim to know, maybe even more. Not for nothing, but shes only got 2 guys in the area, coulda cleared him through. This pilot came in over Lake Meade under the class B which requires no ATC clearance to operate an aircraft. Harrison Ford is an accomplished pilot that made the same sort of mistake that many Commercial ATP pilots have made setting up for the wrong runway or taxiway etc. After that Dad called a friend in the FAA out of the STP and reported the now private pilot as a hazzard and requested a re examination. @Wingslover said, "If youre having medical issues or youre feeling unwell youre not supposed to be in command of an aircraft.". The tower controller likely For everyone making your amazing judgment calls on the Henderson controller: In this case, a plane with the registration code N1NR enters Bravo airspace without clearance to do so, and thats where the situation starts: ATC: N1NR, I need you outside of the Bravo.Pilot: Negative.ATC: Negative what?Pilot: Im inside.ATC: You were not given a clearance through the Bravo. I'm the ATC supervisor in FSD is NxxxxR still Gotta love how times have changed I've gotta jump on the bandwagon in wondering "just what the heck 'Karen' was thinking" when she told the 99.9999999% of commentors on this site to get the "sticks out of their asses". Me - knowing said student thought oh ##@@. @Francis Bagbey 800 Independence Avenue, SW > Nobody gives a f*. He just flat out refused. Recognizing the mistakes, learning from them, and apologizing makes for more experienced PICs, and thus safer airspace. She is going to give him the number when he's ready. Avoiding Pilot Deviations.pdf (1016.81 KB) Pilot deviations can occur in several different ways. If you do receive a brasher warning, you should know that you do not have to call the provided telephone straight away, and you are allowed to take some time to think about the situation that has occurred. Good luck. For everyone making your amazing judgment calls on the Henderson controller: When approach calls tower about a deviation, they may or may not give details. 731NR | Pilots of America Home Forums Controlled Airspace Flight Following 731NR Discussion in ' Flight Following ' started by WWFeldman, Oct 29, 2020 . Everything is on tape. Flightaware shows he flew in from denver at 16300' level the whole way. If N1NR requested clearance but did not hear back from ATC, they would have to repeat the request as they cannot assume what ATC heard; however, it is highly unlikely that even if ATC heard the request they would allow N1NR clearance into Bravo. Please view our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners. "N731NR (again, whining): "I requested Bravo clearance about 15 miles ago. I won't belabor those points. Review: EgyptAir Lounge Cairo Airport (CAI). Sometimes they have multiple frequencies on the same station, so you might hear more than one controller. 3h 18m. The best way to ensure that you do not get in any trouble is to stay vigilant, follow the rules, and file a report if you know that an error has occurred on your behalf. Researching this pilot's flight with FlightAware and Flightradar24 a much clearer picture emerges. . There must be zero tolerance. Almost everybody agrees the jerk was wrong and dangerously so. Otherwise he'll have his license yanked in *very* short order. The compilation is based on data from the agency's Enforcement Information System ( EIS ). If youre having medical issues or youre feeling unwell youre not supposed to be in command of an aircaft. OR he's actually the A that pilot b called him and in that case, break out the cheese grater and throw the AH over your knee. Did anyone ever find out what happened to this pilot? I'm without reason or belief to know why you lack the ability to be surprised. Sometimes ATC attitude causes the problems. Airborne deviations can result when pilots stray from an assigned, heading, altitude, or instrument procedure, or if they penetrate controlled or restricted airspace without ATC clearance. 1NR, exit the Bravo immediately.Pilot: Ive been talking to you the whole time. I know this Controller and she is good at her job. If an air traffic controller has determined that the actions of a pilot have affected the safety of operation, then it is the controllers responsibility to notify the flight crew as soon as it is practical to do so. . By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. That's movie crap. 552. You should be ashamed. It should be a few hundred. And in any case, if the ATC says you need to get out of the airspace, you do it. Opinions expressed here are the authors alone, and have not been reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by any of these entities. The pilots is always in command, not the controller. Isnt the airspace over international airports congested (and dangerous) enough without these general aviation Cesena clowns and the Harrison Fords of the world putting the rest of us at risk? (at least formally) Everybody said most of everything I would want to say. Blatantly ignoring ATC is criminally gross negligence. In other words, his head was so far up his ass And he had to know that ATC comms are recorded. This is serious,you can't be that blatantly disobedient. Yeah, this whole sick daughter thing sounds like so much after action excuse making. Any request must be met with an instruction and then a confirmation. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Let the appropriate agency (the FAA) handle this. The other pilot had it right - he's a real a*&^. Unfortunately, that's not what happened. Thank you, number as soon as IP returns will have him call. It will get figured out. Or, the guy may be a massive jerk. He refuses to leave airspace even though he never had clearance to fly through it, and he refuses to take down a number because hes flying., Hopefully an investigation is done and this guy loses his license. Got it in there but lake was too short for lake off. He did not declare a fuel emergency, so go east over Lake Meade, or go west over Red Rocks and stay out of B and get to HND without any issues. Whether medical or not, whether deserving of sympathy or not, I hope this guy loses his license. Instead he immediately gets defensive and then combative. It is really important to understand how severe the consequences can be. She refuses and he petulantly retorts back. Pilot deviation is when the actions of the pilot result in the violation of a Federal Aviation Regulation or a North American Aerospace Defense Command Air Defense Identification Zone tolerance. Unless there is an emergency, no person should operate an aircraft contrary to an ATC instruction. But if it was just a misjudgment, and we all make those from time to time, the appropriate response would be to simply apologize to the Controller, then get out. ATC is trying to direct traffic and Mr Wachner regardless of a possible misunderstanding says to hell with you I'm doing what I want. Aviation SafetyOffice of Safety StandardsRegulatory Support DivisionAviation Data Systems Branch, In our continuing effort to improve the quality of service to our stakeholders, we would appreciate any comments you may have about our services and how to improve them. Happens every day, but not usually with the drama that this knucklehead exhibited A few weeks ago a commercial pilot blew through the O'hare Bravo - ATC kept trying to gently help him by repeating the local altimeter reading thinking he might check his altitude by the 3rd time he offered it, but eventually just had to notify the errant pilot and provide him with a phone # to call. would argue at times. Why am I not surprised this happened in Vegas, where they're apparently allergic to rules. Either that, or "Karen" is the "wife" this aircraft is registered to in "Wife Approved LLC". All I do is shake my head and smile. Not a cool move on his part. Mistakes happen. They made me navigate the class B environment that I was unfamiliar with without help from ATC. You'd be surprised how many Pilots act like they are the only plane an ATC is working even tho she is nonstop talking sequencing Arrivals to one of the top 5 busiest airports in the USA!!! Penalties, possibly, but he claesrlrx requested class B and was blown off "Nobody gives a f*. Ah, Karen. Go read the news HERE AND NOW and find out when we call the cops with the .50 BMGs to take out one guy going to the store because he looks "suspicious".*. This brasher warning is intended to provide the involved flight crew with the opportunity to make note of the incident that has taken place and gather their thoughts before it is discussed. Watch how 731NR Decides to fly right into class bravo and not even care about it. He let his situational awareness slip, not a good thing. The F-15 and F-16 have to go over twice that. MuckRock is a non-profit collaborative news site that gives you the tools to keep our government transparent and accountable. There are "occupations" of the Seattle State Assembly. If the pilot is unsure of an ATC clearance, they can simply request clarification from ATC. ), Next Generation Air Transportation System (NextGen). Is there any way you can vector me through? The guy is completely wrong, sad thing is he will probably only get a slap on the wrist. The comments on this page have not been provided, reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by any advertiser, and it is not an advertiser's responsibility to ensure posts and/or questions are answered. Pilot: Ive asked for clearance multiple times.ATC: N1NR, I told you to remain outside the Bravo.ATC: N1NR, possible pilot deviation, advise to contact Las Vegas approach. > Word of caution: the owner of the aircraft is easily found, and plenty of information is out there. Hard to believe there is somebody out there kind-of defending him! To all the negative comments we did not hear previous communication. She kept phoning her father, a MD in LA and complaining about her mistreatment and threatening everybody with lawsuits. However he failed to descend below the inner ring, that ring starts at 4500 ft MSL and goes up to 10000 ft MSL. It's not just the danger of him putting his plane where he shouldn't have been--there is the addition of the energy spent dealing with him (multiple radio calls taking time away from other tasks, plus building frustration--controllers are human too, and this stuff can really foul your day). E I know this Controller and she is good at her job. She didn't take the high road when he became argumentative. Air traffic controllers are susceptible to power trips and moods and biases, just like everyone else. Your feedback is important in helping us keep our community safe. It appears this pilot got sloppy without realizing he got sloppy. The likelihood of an actual air collision is low due to the training of "most" pilots, but you don't need a guy like this. If this pilot had responded to the controllers first comment with, Oh my gosh. Pull that @$$holes license and give him a huge fine. However, unless you are in a Class A airspace, a pilot is allowed to cancel an IFR flight plan if the operation is being conducted in VFR weather conditions. Uncharacteristic behavior is often one of the first indicators of an underlying problem. There's many reasons my flights keep being delayed and canceled and ATC being overworked is one of them. Humans make mistakes sometimes its not a reason to bully somebody. Now, I hate to defend this guy because what he did was insane but i'm not so quick to pull his ticket simply because I wouldn't want my Now, I hate to defend this guy because what he did was insane but i'm not so quick to pull his ticket simply because I wouldn't want my ticket pulled if I messed up - though I wouldn't like that. 866.835.5322 (866-TELL-FAA)Contact Us, United States Department of Transportation, Aviation Safety Draft Documents Open for Comment, Airport Coronavirus Response Grant Program, Legislation & Policies, Regulations & Guidance, Certificated Remote Pilots including Commercial Operators, Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations, Archived Quarterly Enforcement Reports (These reports date back to the first quarter of 1997. Calling the cops on "someone suspicious" has become a way to say "There's a minority person and I don't like something about them so I called the cops on them.". [His lack of permission and knowledge about needing such was discussed by previous posters and is referenced here just for completeness.]. This guy has absolutely no business being in command of an automobile, much less an aircraft in class B airspace. Your participation in helping us identify both our strong and weak points will help us improve our service(s) to all our stakeholders. This isnt a slap on the wrist type of offense. A copy of documents responsive to the request. The ONLY reason aviation is the safest form of transportation is precisely because everything is taken so seriously. Continuing into class Bravo airspace without a clearance and then flying right thru the active ILS approach to a major airport is a huge problem. Keep up the anti-mask bs. Not buying the sick daughter excuse. He flew into the Bravo airspace without a clearance, argued with the controller when she repeatedly told him to exit the Bravo, and continued his flight through as if he owned the airspace. Thank you. So to appease the pilot and keep him from rattling off more sob story on frequency, he just smiles and waves. When you have 2 F-16s or 2 F-15s escorting you that should bring sense into your head faster than having the nerve to argue. Don't get what you want, "burn down the system.". https://cdn.muckrock.com/foia_files/2020/09/15/FLM1_Phone_Call_N731NR_-_Redacted.wav. Again, not a good decision. For the bloviating piehole who made a comment about the American pilot who required 31L, I was the PIC and I declared an emergency three times because there was one. Visit a tracon JUST ONCE. I didn't hear anything that I didn't find out of line. Other pilots chimed in calling him for what he was. To break down the exchange, the air traffic controller orders the aircraft to leave the Bravo airspace and pilot whines and refuses because he's already in the airspace. Me - yes sir, IP just sent student name on his long cross country and controlled airspace flight. Maybe follow-up later with a phone call to make sure they knew it was entirely unintentional, you immediately corrected the error, and that safety is paramount. Now he may have requested clearance BUT requesting clearance and being granted clearance are two different things. There was a similar incident once about 10 years ago in New York where the kid would keep declaring and undeclaring an emergency. 3 This pilot is more than likely going to have to do recurrent training probably 10 to 15 hrs before privalages can be restored. The pilot violated the FARs and FSDO needs to take appropriate action. "N731NR (angrily): "I'm not ready to copy. Is there an issue? "LAS: "No"N731NR: "Yes! With respect to my comment above (cant edit), delete the word email from the comment (next to last word). He probably should have his certificate revoked. But Id recommend against posting it, even if that person turns out to be the idiot in question. But you'd think that someone displaying this much attitude and disrespect for critical rules would have shown his true colors and been denied a license much earlier. Neil Wilsonthe CFIIsays "maybe the controller was playing her class BRAVO authority a little too far".. You should not be a CFII with that kind of attitude. For purposes of these compilations, a regulated aviation entity holds a certificate issued by the FAA, (e.g., air carrier operating certificate, repair station certificate, pilot school certificate, airport operating certificate) or is a foreign air carrier or other aviation entity regulated under Part 129 of the Federal Aviation Regulations, 14 CFR Part 129. He SHOULD lose his cert for Thank you for your attached FOIA request. The guy should be investigated and suspended until taught both manners and flying law. As we have previously mentioned, the penalties for pilot deviation can be very severe, and the action itself can often be deadly. We will leave some of the most common violations below for you to read about. Maybe on a subconscious level, you realize that there are departures off of Runway 27R as well. What would the discussion be today if there had been a midair collision like the one in San Diego in 1979 with the PSA 727 and a Cessna? My local airport is RDU. If you do not, then you might face losing your certificate, which isnt what anybody wants. Having been a pilot for over 50 years let me assure you this pilot will receive more than a you shouldnt do that anymore. Good for the controller for remaining reasonable. Plus..help us if weather becomes a problem, as it did yesterday..with vectors around threatening weather. I think by "Airforce" [sic] you're thinking of all those movies you've seen. I just looked over the link you posted. Caller - oh you might say that. The first is to signal that the pilot is done speaking especially. You have successfully joined our subscriber list. The ONLY reason aviation is the safest form of transportation is precisely because everything is taken so seriously. Alan BillingsFOIA Business AnalystFederal Aviation Administration AFN-400(O) 202-267-6352alan.billings@faa.gov, Subject: RE: Freedom of Information Act Request: FAA records for N731NR. The magic words that should raise the hairs on the back of your neck are "possible pilot deviation." It goes without saying that you should remain vigilant as you fly around the national. 1) Probably not hypoxia. Civil aviation authorities should raise pilot standards.