There's a reason why they had the kind of brand loyalty that Microsoft can only dream of.Success in business comes from serving your customers, not about beating your competition. Some are exceptional at one, and passable at others. This is all well and good, but in 9years I've never worked in a group with a Senior IC (Windows, IE, .NET), though some architects. ceo/vp/director/manager/lead etc. It's really not that complicated. Executing on what you have now at a high rate/quality level.2. I was always righteously indignant when I encountered asshats and incompetence and I would rail against the losers to anyone who would listen, and then I would do whatever it took to drive my agenda through to completion.I focused 100% on producing vast quantities of superior quality work -- which endeared me to my management chain and opened up a crap-ton of doors at those early levels. This topic didn't elicit nearly as many comments as I would have expected. +1 on the level balancing difference in subs.As someone who has transferred employees to/from corp/sub both directions and has promoted a bunch of folk, the corp level for a role is 2 numbers higher than the equivalent sub one. Like another poster, I was a 64 who hit the "65 wall" after 10 years at MS. What worked for me was to go to my manager and say: "I would like to stay here, at Microsoft, working for you. Joined MCS at level 60 and was immediately told that L61 would be years away. My queries on any specific guidance would get no response or the response that youre a 62 and you should be able to figure it out. Owning big features, knowledge about code base, ability to help your peers - irrelevant. If the answer is regularly a 'yes', then this clearly is an indication that you are ready. Don't be afraid to ask your manager some very direct questions.Don't force the issue. After that, I was given a team that was dysfunctional and the most problematic area of the product - now its the area that customers rave about and the team is running smoothly.The bottom line is that takes (1) very hard work (2) you need to build your skills (3) personality to drive the solution in spite of the process and (4) demand excellence from others - including managing out those that will never deliver quality (some folks are net losses to the team).I always hear the whining from folks that get stuck at level 62/63 but when those tough challenges are out there, they don't volunteer and they certainly don't go looking for the biggest challenges. Great post Mini. This way I can be in a better position to show that I am a "absolutely!" At the end of the day its about $$ and in reality levels mean nothing if your getting paid crap. Starting to reach out and grab some of what you would be doing with a bigger scope/higher level.An earlier poster said it. Former is work of many years and long nights and proven track record while later is basically your ability to bullshit through 6 interviews. It's what you can offer, not what you want out of it that most teams are looking for. Also, go mine some of Dr. Brechner's Hard Code columns. don't make enemies), change jobs about once every 3-4 years, and do your job reasonably wellfor a decade. The current distribution is simply pathetic.. People who get stuck at the plateau are often referred to as disillusioned learners. I'd like to see a transition plan from you in 2 days". I am a troll. Embrace whatever people are saying are your flaws. How do levels compare? > What if you and your manager are at the same level L62. I moved around 3 teams before I found one where I really enjoyed the technology and the people, and here I've flourished.So forget all the whining about politics and crap. how to check hall sensor on samsung washer; marriott grande vista grande cove menu; what happened to josh's partner bill on moonshiners; are goldfish crackers good for an upset stomach Of course I ensure my manager and skip-level are aware of my contribution as a mentor, but I figure that as long as I'm in front of the wave, the best way for me to advance is to move the wave forward. If youre not doing a great job at your current level youre not even going to be considered for the next level. So, for those of you who are in orgs where it's 'easy' to get to L63 or L64 - think about transferring out BEFORE you get too high a level and paint yourself into a corner. If youve capped out at Level 62 then MS is probably not a great fit for you. Will <> reach Level 63 during their career? Now it's up to me to do whatever it takes to make *them* great, even if it doesn't benefit my product directly. So no time like the present to practice where you can. Related Searches:All Senior Director Salaries|All Microsoft Salaries. High energy, result oriented senior executive with 20yrs+ of comprehensive Sales, Marketing & Operations management experience in IT (Solutions & Services) in GCC region, with a record of. Mini -- you left out the most important option, which I took. This way you have a more clear understanding of the seniority of that particular position and if you search for a group manager you will see the seniority distribution. If I'm going to be late delivering something, give folks advance notice.3. VPs may well number in the hundreds at a huge place . The technical and management ladder in Microsoft is highly competitive and is highly regarded in the Industry. Your boss is the way to your promotion no matter where, what and when. We have covered both technical and management track at Microsoft. Up until L63, you can pretty continue to be promoted based on raw talent to get things done smartly and efficiently. Amy Hood. Shock and awe awaits [sic].Four errors in grammar and punctuation in a post of just 14 words? It's also a well-known fact that there is a disparity in levels between Office and now Sinofsky's Windows and the rest of the company, especially below 65 level.Can anyone elaborate on that? Some related job titles areMarketing Director salaries with median pay of $163,348,Senior Consultant salaries with median pay of $123,519,Senior Product Manager salaries with median pay of $193,845,Managing Director salaries with median pay of $333,006. They know that if the team does well, they will do fine.5. What worked well and what really horked things up for you? I know devs who got there without doing anything substantial but their manager was nice and there was no competition.In short, Level 63 to me is not important and I really dont respect 63s unless they I've interacted with them.Level 65+ is another story and are devs who have the stuff almost always.- Someone at Level 62. Unless you know for sure that your boss's answer is an immediate "Absolutely!" One, we bill customers higher for higher levels and we call everyone 'highly experienced' or even an 'architect'. I also don't know if this is the first step towards a lay-off, but for now, it seems we'll have jobs for a few more months.Ugh, not good, not good at all. Until you can be honest with yourself (and it's not fun, trust me) you will be stuck doing what you're doing and your complaining will be the glue keeping you there. What advice do you have to pass on? According to Glassdoor, senior software engineers at Google can earn $172,818 as their average base pay, along with average cash bonuses of $30,921, stock bonuses of $104,769, and some other cash incentives for a total of $201,000. IBM got their position by focusing on the customer. Why? This is the first year I have spent more than 2 years at a level (L61) and still not gotten a promotion. I heard that promotion budgets are significantly reduced at below 65 level. MS is a carrot and stick culture with some heavy emphasis on stick. I am going through some finanical hardships and is getting the level changed is the only way for a salary increase? An accomplished and proven Director / Tech & Business Principal / Programme Manager / Business Partner / Service Delivery Manager with a wide-ranging skillset, experienced in leading teams to success. This makes it very easy to feel underleveled, because the 6 people that started 3 weeks before you might take up the 2 promotion spots available per year for 3 years (numbers all made up).You also, at least in my experience, aren't really given feedback on when you're performing at a level that *could* be promoted. Ask any old mainframer what it was like to be an IBM customer back in the day. right? My old boss was a 65 but his title was "principal director of engineering", new boss is the exact same level and job and his title is "principal engineering manager". It is a dream company for many people. And what is happening now trying to move up after becoming a Dev Manager? Alternately, you can increase the scope of your own job and justify an increased level.So the only real question is, what do you need to do differently at the higher level? First let's set the expectations right for this quarter and possibly the next: The budgets for promos are shrunk almost everywhere. I came in at L61 2+ years ago. Results-focused: they are focused on getting great results and don't entwine their ego to particular solutions. Wonderful. In response to Kelly Calvert:Regarding..Also, its important to keep in mind that it is impossible to provide a perfect definition of any level. Great post and comments. Then they start pinging the manager on why and putting pressure on them to do something, move them up or out. All you have to do is look at the level distribution, there is a large dropoff in positions at 65. Aren't those the things you are best at? Finally, take heart and dont become too discouraged if this is taking a little longer than it seems like it should. There are not a lot of options at that point. Yes, "soft skills" count. right?). Here's to you! No, never: now, going back to that <> question above: if your boss is answering "No, never" then this is a red-alert moment for you. clinical research associate entry level jobs near me; new laws for first time violent offenders in louisiana. Give the employee directives and start documenting when they fail so a case can be brought to get rid of them if it comes to that. Great post! Does anyone know what the typical salary increase, measured in percentage, is for going from 62 to 63? I'm now past my time that I can recruit away from MSFT after leaving some time ago. We've negotiated thousands of offers and regularly achieve $30k+ (sometimes $300k+) increases. They want you to succeed, they want the team to succeed. Continuously revisit those and discuss with your manager. I suspect the former because there's no point in a manager telling you that you got promoted when you didn't. I came in at L61 2+ years ago. Wish I this post and comments laminated about 10 years ago after I wasn't going to get rich off stock.My comment to add is to those who are put into situations of continual reorgs and want to achieve the 'Senior'. You can switch jobs internally and get leveled up (typically 6-12 months after) - but make sure you have the conversation with the manager as to what is the expected level and what is the cap. Microsoft Software Engineering Manager salary levels ranges from 63 (SDE Lead) upto 80 (Corporate VP), with 80 (Corporate VP) level earning average salary of $4851k along with $3675k worth of stock options. Pull the ripcord. a Data Scientist 1. HTH. check the ego out, ensure that people around you (the whole team is successful), create the best results possible and your promotion wont be far away. If it is "Absolutely!" Whether your manager is hardcore or touchy-feely, you need a bulldog to promote you or you ain't goin' nowhere. That didnt happen by chance alone. Help make it more accurate by adding yours. 3. This is certainly the course that I took. I want to share some of my thoughts about succeeding at Microsoft and reaching Level 63, the Senior contributor level at Microsoft. Similarly, the best predictor of your success at the next level is your success at the current level! But coming back is a HUGE IF, since I can't see ever going back the that cesspool of stupid. Eng, Go to company page Oh, please. Paradigm Shift: In order to achieve the next level of competence to some extent you need to temporarily let go of some of your hard gained skills in order to make the leap and try some new things. Then follow Mini's advice and you should be all set. Impossible. Executive Vice President and Chief Human Resources Officer. Ability to solve problems independently is bad because if you don;t ask for help it reduces your visibility. I have only required two strategies. Averages based on self-reported salaries. The details in front of you are just details. Over 20 years of experience in professional services including, architecture, corporate real estate, and integrated facility management, operating at a global and regional level. The money losing groups hires. That sounded like a complete crock to me. if they'd only stop doing X and start doing Y on a sustained basis, I could see it Microsoft: Citi Cuts Ests, Target On PC Slowdown. You need to consider how you can compete with the pizza eating 25 year olds that don't have a life and work 80 hours a week. And your manager will not hate you for thinking about switching -- if you are a great employee to begin with, he will just want to keep you around. No one else was as good. But on balance mgrs at MS get things right a lot more often than they get them wrong or we wouldnt be one of the most highly capitalized companies in the history of biz. Former Employee Director, Level 65 at Microsoft Aug 11, 2009 - Director in Redmond, WA Recommend CEO Approval Business Outlook Pros Microsoft has all the resources necessary to win in the market, and you're surrounded by some of the brightest people in the world. It going to be more about survival in the current business climate. Some are good at all. After all, they are thinking through if you will be a good peer and will be easy to work with (and make their lives better in some way). HC-freeze is already in motion, as is serioius savings in all FSC/COS - only thing still not explored is layoffs. What is up with the gold star awards? We in general hire very smart people who can figure it out. Do a great job and you are likely to revise their expectations for the following cycle. L65 took four years. I have also always looked for those problems (opportunities). I could make changes quickly and with quality. Your commitments should already provide you with milestones to set as your goals. The funding for our project stopped and our vendor team of 28 people have been asked to leave immediately. agree with positive suggestions here. As per Microsoft's job posting, the specific position requires over 8 years of experience so it pays high as well. It would be the pinnacle of dumbness. At a intl sub level a 63 is two ic to the GM. You want to be more efficient, smarter than him. For example, see http://www.intropsych.com/ch07_cognition/learning_curve.html. Wow. as many others posters said: if you are worry too much about promotion chances are you will keep worrying. Or you wait until you get escorted out.I dont know what the final outcome of my situation will be but I expect in the end, I will think it was for the better.Good luck to all in your Microsoft careers, but pay attention to the levels, CSPs and how stack rankings work. Most are management types whose only skill is sucking up. Turn (it) Around, Bright Eyes: every now and then I get a little bit thrilled when someone joins the team straight out of school (or with a little industry experience) and after a few months it's obvious that Microsoft is the best company for them. Microsoft's senior positions start at level 63, according to the crowdsourced tech compensation website Levels.fyi. If you go looking for those problems though, you better be prepared to deliver. Be very careful, because some people may tell you about this or that great thing they did, and only mention that they are (or were) married to this General Manager, or that they have been in the team since it was only 2 people, and the other person today is a VP. Thanks for starting this. Be prepared for every possible question, scenario, disaster, etc. The only thing you learn is your bucket, and roughly where in the bucket you fit based on your numbers. For example, when I joined MS in 1990 there were 6 devs working on the first version of Word for Windows. When it comes to where you actually rank and what you get paid that part is all that matters. It varies greatly from manager to skip.The hardest point for me to bear is that I am young, capable of doing so much more, and absolutely dying to do more. "a HR manager" is acceptable if HR is meant to convey a spoken "a human resources manager" rather than a spoken "an aich arr manager".haven't should have an apostrophe, yes. given that the resource is static. I know there is always new hope that comes with new leadership, but there is also a restart too. When it comes to where you actually rank and what you get paid that part is all that matters. "There is no greater de-motivator than a reward system that is perceived to be unfair. at weeks to find another position within the company, otherwise they are laid off.Anyone know others? Here's how to find it. (1) Oh, please. Wouldnt my manager get annoyed if I try to go over him to get myself know to VP? similar to maybe how EY says senior manager is Director (pwc, kpmg) equivalent. I know we have had some huge improvements in the last few years in that regard, but we are really still way far behind, and I as a male employee, I know that very well, and I have seen many instances of female super stars de-emphasized in favor of a less-achieving, less-talented male team member. You will not know the difference. This can play a bigger role even than how many times you broke the build, caused a bug, etc. Here's some advice from a recent L64'er (L63 last year). Understand not just what needs to happen, but WHY. Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Many senior people, even VPs read this blog. 4. The education qualifications required for various roles for Technical track are: The highest job title in management track in Microsoft is "Vice President (VP)". At Microsoft, the levels start at 59 and go beyond 80. One could easily sack 4000 heads at HQ and R&D nor revenue would take a hit. They don't survive long while others who do little move up. That's the wall you need to talk about, but the discussion would be very different than the L63 bump.And after 5+ years at L64, I finally just left. The Job titles for this position are: Software Development Engineer SDE You must ask for a promotion when you think you are ready. That is the guy to beat. Lots of groundwork, considerable drama and leverage but eventually it got done. Of course everyone wants to be promoted every review, so don't bother asking right after your last promotion.What matters most is that you are doing what your manager thinks deserves to get you promoted. You should be on the same side. She partners very closely with colleagues to develop and drive the people strategy across the UK GEO. Many folks lurk longer in the 60-62 range because they are not challenged enough to move to the next level. (this is never a bad idea anyway) Then, if you are doing as good a job as he, he will want you as a peer in level, if not, then he can help you grow. As long as that's the case, I doubt anything would change.The method that this is done is troubling also. Software development at MS has become more complex and much more collaborative. Therefore, you are an HR manager. So one big part is do good work, but another is don't do bad work.I think it's a very good idea to ask for a promotion. Of course, it goes without saying that if you dont have any substance you will likely hurt yourself badly and get ignored with vengeance next time. 6 years ago I developed what I have been supporting since. Think about why they're able to do that.-jcr. The Goldstars have already been canceled for this quarter.Next, I believe this post will most likely be useful for those who entered MS as intern/college hires. If you have your mnanager in your pocket, you cna achieve greate heights in life. If you know higher leveled people in another org, ask them to poke holes in your proposals. At L63 in particular you break out of the pack with expertise in the "how" you accomplish things. Obviously, this is advice that you may not apply during the current hiring freeze, but keep it on your mind for the future.- At times the focus on the level may not be the most important strategy in the long term. You havent [sic] seen nothing [sic] yet. Benefits can add thousands of dollars to your offer. Difference between getting promoted to L65 and joining as new FTE at L65 is HUGE. Two years ago I realized that the MS treadmill (trying to become what my dysfunctional manager wanted) was making me nuts. They make decisions that affect both their department and the company, making their role crucial in the pursuit of the company's goals. The reason why they were 65's are:1. What advice do you need? "Your Recently Promoted L63 Peers"? Ah, dude, my boss is in the way of my promotion. Granted, you have to live in the greater NYC area, but it's a great place to be. They don't get defensive if their ideas are revealed to have flaws but rather delight in being able to move to a better solution. because I have never seen the above formula fail with me in many years or people I know (a sample set of hundreds of person-years), I would agree, right now, level is deflated, 64, and 65 are real barriers, and salary level expand as well. I left eight years after that when I realized that L66 wasn't going to happen for me.The bottom line: If your boss isn't pushing for you, get them on your side or leave the group. I'm currently level 66 and started at level 59 (equivalent in old levels) 12 years ago. Pop quiz: who is it? If I ever do decide to come back to MSFT, I will do so as a level 68+ and nothing less. Your lead. No, L7 is 66-67. and is willing to take a chance on someone whose interview indicates they are ready for next level. You will not know the difference.Steve Steve Steve given the state of the company, are you sure you don't have anything else more urgent to do? That clarity may not always result in a promotion on the exact timeline you envision but if you're honest with yourself and have a good manager it really helps.I'm a 13 year Microsoft employee who lived through the bad old days of crappy managers. It makes a difference in your relationship. For example, some are principal individual contributors that just stayed for too long in a group and became essential, but now want to move on and cannot do that, either because their skills are obsolete or because they simply cannot go to a new startup team at such high level without any management responsibility, and they are untested managers. Take responsibility for defining the component in front of you -- is it really the right thing for the product/team? The conclusion: its price today! Would they give you the level if you were not already a Microsoft employee? Any idea on when is this going to change? Its nice to see constructive advice and stories from everyone.I'm in the 61 bucket and currently struggling with my team for many months. We are all flawed, and you are lucky if people are telling you something that you can do something about. Few others are long time softies who have been doing average to good job for very long time (3-7 years) without getting any promos. . What now? For example, in order to be promoted to level 62, you, as a level 61, must already perform at a level 62 level for a long time. They don't care who gets the credit, and they fight for good reviews for their people. However, I think this is the first point where we see a non-trivial number of folks plateau. Be the Rosh Gadol Microsoftie. Great and timely post - thank you Mini! So all you're telling me is I can't count on you so why should I? I've been hearing some stealth layoffs around the SQL and BOSG groups, around 70+ people were given 6(?) My experience, I joined MSFT at 63 and in 3.5 years I am at 65. So honestly, what is your boss's answer about if you'll reach L63? You don't get your money by snatching it out of Google or Apple's hands, you get it by convincing your customers to hand it to you.Do you want to know why Vista is such an unmitigated disaster? By then I had already already set up several clients as in independent consultant, so I declined to stay. Can we talk about the recent hiring of a new OSG head, as well as ideas on how to fix online? If you send a brownbag invitation to your VP level group then you know your VP is getting it. And in your answer, there's a kicker follow-up: not only what you need to do to justify being promoted to L63, but to succeed in comparison to your L63 + L64 peers. A mistake was a huge cost. During that time I had two good to great managers. You should be able to show the path to a goal, especially to collections of people who do not report to you. That is why to get to L65 a VP level person must know your work and be able to recall your name without help. Thank you for reviewing my profile. > Lots of very true points. If the answer for you is "No" and you don't like that, well, what are you going to do? At a basic level, in a company the size of Microsoft, the higher you go, the less you contribute individually and the more you contribute by your impact on an organization - hiring the right people, setting clear and correct goals, driving alignment and execution. You may not need them to get from 59->60, but if you're good at them, it'll make your rise much quicker. B.Sc in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Electronics, M.Sc in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Electronics, PhD in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Electronics, Designing and implementing Software and Hardware Systems, Benchmarking and validating Software and Hardware Systems, Developing innovative solutions and publish papers and patents, Managing teams and keep track of progress, Predicting market trends, identifying market risks, Identifying future opportunities, preparing company roadmap. At this point many people will ask how can I influence others if Im not their manager? "This is the lament of every person in every big company everywhere it's usually a combination of truth (most of us are capable of more than the roles we're currently filling) and hubris (if I had a nickel for ever junior person who over-estimated what they were capable of I'd be retired).