Their attitude is summed up by Elmer Keith in Shotguns by Keith: the satisfaction of seeing big ducks crumple at long range and come down and bounce on the ground or splash high in the water is the cream of shotgun shooting., It is my view that the long-range duck-hunting cult was a legacy from the days of market hunting. He did note, however, that the rib first appeared at about serial number 240,000. There are 16 pages of loads for various shell lengths, shot sizes (dust through buck, soft or chilled), five powders, five shell grades and 11 gauges. Also, it was the only 1 3/8-ounce magnum load available. The barrel is stamped "WS 1" with 2 3/4, ****SOLD******Mfg 1956, 30" 2-Pin Vent Rib, Full, B-Carved Wood, 13 3/4" Lop to Winchester Pad, Wood shows some handling marks Nothing Bad, 90-95% Blue, Shiney Bore, Buyer pays 60.00 shippin. Title. Winchester ~ Model 12 Trap ~ Pump Action Shotgun ~ 12 Gauge. The Model 21 double seemed the reasonable choice for Winchesters duck gun. Learn how your comment data is processed. 30 Barrel. In reading Stadt's statements on page 109 of the latest version of this book, I don't see where he is too sure of his statements. The balance point is the takedown joint. Winchester Model 12 Skeet Gun 12 gauge with 25" Solid Rib Barrel - 12 GA: 0 5d 7h 6m 17240921. Lot 6593: Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun . The price in 1963 was $122 compared to $109.50 for the standard Model 12. Exc Orig Condition, Winchester Model 12 28-gauge, factory original, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 LIMITED EDITION 20GA. Very Good example of a Model 12 26 inch poly choke with vent rib 12 ga. Other conditions: Phone 715-478-0404 within 48 hours to confirm payment, . Actually, it is generally thought by researchers that no Winchester factory Model 12 ribs were made or installed by Simmons. The stock is the upgraded Monte Carlo style capped pistol grip, heavy pad, upgraded wood, and cheek rest. This combination, which averaged 83.6% at 40 yards, averaged 44.2% at 60 yards! Not sure how many of you know this, but the rib has a serial number stamped on the underside of them with the same number stamped on the underside of the barrel. For small bores, there are still new factory wood sets available. This shotgun is in near new condition in the original box. Later pump guns, such as the Remington Model 870 and Mossberg Model 500, do not have the slide lock feature. Range was 40 yards from gun muzzle to target frame. Herbert Houze summarizes the Watrous report in his book Winchester Repeating Arms Company, Its History & Development from 1865 to 1981. The less pronounced pistol grip-style buttstock of the original Model 12 was discontinued in late 1934 and is not found on duck guns. The vent rib is stamped "SIMMONS GUN SPECIALTIES INC. KANSAS CITY, MO.". That is true about Model 42s, but, as far as researchers know, it is not true about Model 12s. Classic Browning Light Twelve Auto-5 Review: Busting Clays With the Old Humpback Shotgun. $550 USD. Also available initially were standard trap and special trap grades. Whether you're looking for a truck gun, something for the bug out bag, or a do-anything firearm we have you covered. Winchester proof steel replaced nickel steel in the manufacture of all Winchester firearms in the early 1930s. Featured Gun Classifieds Winchester Shotguns - Model 12, Winchester Model 12 - 20ga - 26 - Improved Cylinder- NIB - UNFIRED - SN: MT0162 - AS NEW with high figured wood - 2 3/4" Shells note: particles/dust can be seen in the photo, In very good condition. I am still going with "Winchester sent Model 12s to Simmons for ribs, but Simmons sold them." Charles Askins provides data for the patterning of several of his personal shotguns with Westerns Super X shells loaded with their new #4 copper-plated shot. Pandemonium! Some will even go 85% to 90%, but rarely. Keith, who obtained Askins Ithaca 10 magnum double upon Askins death, achieved 93% patterns with two ounces of copper-plated#3 shot in the big double. I included #2 shot because this size shot has always been my goose and turkey load in 3-inch shells. Rangemasters are here to answer all your questions about our products or process. Look for an offset proof mark on the barrel to indicate whether the rib came on the gun or was fitted aftermarket. It is the skeet style of stock with a comb drop of 1 1/2 2 1/2 inches, and a 14-inch length, butt to trigger. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Thanks for the reference. It has a Simmons rib, which is not out of the question for Winchester to have used according to Maddis in his book of the model 12's. The metal finish is superior to a field grade gun, higher polish and a matted receiver top and magazine tube. Thanks= Re-Up- forgot the offset marks on a factory ribbed gun- two of my 5 pre-1950 M12's have the factory solid rib, and the 1948 Pigeon Trap has the "Old Milled Rib" with the sandblast bulled top and the "Duck-Billed" rib extension. becouse plain barrels shoot higher than solid ribs do ,solid ribs shoot flatter. Simmons Gun Specialties rib has been added to barrel. Charles Askins may have influenced the decision. Every cowboy needs a revolver. Full choke was the only standard boring available. Bob Hinman, in his 1972 GUN DIGEST article Ten Cents a Duck, notes that Shooting for the market was at one time a way of life for thousands of Americas skilled shotgunners.. Copyright 1995-2023 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. 4 chilled shot.. Charles Askins is the father of the late Colonel Charles Askins, Jr., of course. Madis states Ventilated ribs were rarely offered on [duck] guns. However, The fact is a few duck guns were provided with these ribs. Dave Riffles book and the various catalogs I have indicate that the Winchester new ventilated rib was an option from about 1954 to 1959. Simmons also removed Solid Ribs from barrels and added his rib to those barrels. This is not John Waynes revolver it is a modern work of art! . MAKE OFFER. I fired 10 patterns for each of the five test loads in each of the two duck guns, for a total of 100 patterns. Thanks for all the info,my Grandfather died when I was in 12th grade in 1971 and I now have his field grade Mod.12 and 9 others love them all.I also have my Great Grandfathers Mod.97. Winchester Pre War Mod 12 Trap 2 Barrel Set 12ga, Winchester Pre 64 Mod 12 DU Illinios No.1 Engraved by M Dubber, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK 12GA 3 INCH MAGNUM, Winchester Model 12 16 Gauge rare 2-barrel set, Used Browning BT99 Plus 12 gauge 28" bbl fixed choke mod good condition no box no manuals, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 16GA PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN, Winchester Mod 12 Vent Rib B-Carved Wood 12ga, "Winchester Model 12 Shotgun 12 Gauge (W12258), Winchester, Ducks Unlimited, Model 12, 12 Ga, Shotgun, Winchester Model 21 Heavy Duck, 12ga, 30" 3" mag, Briley Chokes, Winchester Model 12 12 ga. Deluxe Skeet grade w/ factory Cutts, Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 gauge 24" VR bbl EARLY Serial #. We have a But I manage to concentrate, find the combination, and center a pair of easy sprigs. And you are not right about them becouse the model 12 evolved over time with improvements you didn't seem to catch becouse you are probable not a shooter. Get Guns.com offers and news!! Charles Askins confirmed the tighter patterns and greater effective range in the field. Mechanically excellent. Thomas C. Johnson came to Winchester in 1885 and remained a dedicated employee until his death in 1934. Winchester made changes to the stock of the Model 12 duck gun after its introduction. Guns.com's selection won't leave you feeling unprepared. The 1 5/8-ounce load of the mid-30s bought the 12 magnum a few more yards of range. These are rare, a line can be seen along the dounut post on both sides. Guns.com pledges to make gun buying easy, to support local gun stores, and to serve our the barrel and chamber are bright and clean. There were also many ribs installed that were Simmons' design built by Win., and Simmons rib parts purchased by Winchester and installed at Win., and ribs installed by Win. The new 1935-style buttstock featured a closer and fuller pistol grip. The short shot string put more shot into a duck whistling by at 50 yards. Winchester designed the Model 42 to use the new shell and the combo went to market in 1932. Charles Askins was the leading expert on shotguns in the first half of the last century. Ernie special order model 12's from Winchester to add his Dounut Vent Rib. Both guns were disassembled, cleaned and lightly oiled before testing. Here-tofore, you could only shoot this weight of shot in a 10-gauge double gun with 2 7/8-inch chambers, or the new Ithaca Magnum 10. Like new with a mark on the top of th, Winchester Model 21 Heavy Duck, 12ga, 30" barrels, solid rib, 3" mag. The Simmons rib is done at Winchesters direction as it has the WP proof offset from the rib. It looks like it is in very good shape. ONLY ONE EVER PRODUCED BY WINCHESTER, ULIMATE RARITY. Winchester - Model 12, Deluxe, Pump Action, RARE 28ga. The load averaged 67.5% (range 62-72.5%), in a 30-inch circle at 40 yards. 98% original, WINCHESTER MODEL 25 PUMP SHOTGUN SOLID FRAME MODEL BARREL LENGTH 28" CHOKE MODIFIED. Did they actually produce any in 1919 or did it take some time to get them out to the public after patent was approved? Sold them when we down sized to a smaller house that did not have a custom built safe room in it like the old house. Westerns copper-plated shot, introduced about 1925, extended shotgun range even further. Something went wrong. to be finishedat least thats what Stadt says in his book"Winchester, Shotguns and Shotshells"very interesting book.a little different look at M-12 than Madis and Riffle.WC. Curious, I fired five additional patterns at 60 yards with Model 12 number 1418XXX and the Winchester load of 1 5/8-ounces of #4 shot. We join Buckingham in his ducking skiff as he is poled through the bayou by Ab, his black guide. Ithaca brought out their Magnum 10double to use the new shell. Interchangeable barrels (forend assembly) for 2 3/4-inch shells and choke of choice were special order. Possible the fore end has been either replaced or re done. For example, only about 300 Super Fox and 800 of the Ithaca Magnum 10 doubles went into hunters hands during the period. Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without Not shown in the table of results are the dense centers of patterns obtained with #4 shot compared to # 8 and #2 shot. "Metal parts of the Model 12 are machined from chrome-molybdenum, the toughest, longest wearing and finest gun steel known." Barrel lengths were 30 or 32 inches, but 32-inch barrels were discontinued in 1948. A milled rib Model 12 is a milled rib Model 12, but the terminology is used a bit loosely. Model 12 duck guns are highly specialized tools for a very limited number of duck hunters who can regularly center a duck at 40-60 yards, and need to. Pictures are of the item listed. I have the wood all refinished. Stock is very fine, with light scratching, pressure dents and an attractive grain pattern. of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. My 1953 duck gun has the factory solid rib. Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 28 Gauge Single Family Owned Since 1967, Vent. I have a donut post trap gun but not a pigeon, had two 3 inch guns, one had donut post the other had a round post. Chamber marked 3", choke marked full, and 14 1/2" LOP. Nickel and ivory sight beads on the aftermarket Simmons rib, with choke marked full and 2 3/4 inch chamber. Nickel and ivory sight beads on the aftermarket Simmons rib, with choke marked full and 2 3/4 inch chamber. I am anxious to get it back from the engraver. , The Winchester Model 12 Y series was introduced in 1972 and made until about 1984. When I went to the university in a different town I worked for another gun shop that was an authorized Winchester Repair Center. I was at a local gunshop this morning and was looking at a model 12 2-3/4" that had a Simmons rib. RIAC believes that this website is accessible to the widest possible audience pursuant to the guidelines of the Americans with Disability Act. Smith & Wesson Model 586: Reviewing A .357 Revolver With Class. My second blast bites off a dismayed climber. Get the 76th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. The trap load was included because trap shooting is suited to the duck gun. It is general consensus that 10 patterns are required for an accurate appraisal of a given load and barrel combination. This was after extensive reworking of the chokes by Ithaca. I have read the 3 different books I have on model 12's from cover to cover many times. The magnitude of this sale is appreciated when you realize how few of the special 10- and 12-gauge magnum double guns were sold. For specifics on Copyright Law and Experts can attest to the vast improvements they have found shooting with the Simmons Ventilated Rib. The old trap shooters didn't and they did just fine. His shotguns were undoubtedly the best long-range duck guns he found in extensive testing. custom bolt act. service to the online gun buying experience that is unheard of. Saint Charles, Missouri. A smothered roar from around the corner! Winchester sent some M-12s to Simmons to have ribs installed, Simmons returned them to Win. w/ 22" barrel in original box w/ paperwork 1 of 1,000 #UG5 2 Paul Jaeger Jenkintown, PA. 30-06 cal. Results and Discussion The paired pattern percentages fired by the two duck guns with each of the five loads were not significantly different, judging by the overlapping standard deviations. Spend your time enjoying the gun you want, not getting frustrated with a complex website that makes gun buying hard. Beautifully figured wood is solid with only light handling marks and marks on bo, This Winchester Model 12 started life in 1924 and has been customized by unknown individual at some point. Askins wrote in his 1929 book Modern Shotguns and Loads: Perhaps half the game that is killed in America today is shot with repeating shotguns, pump or automatic. Serial numbers match on barrel and receiver. Including this gun, they found a total of 4 gun with a 1919 date. And our Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. Manufactured in 1959. The barrels and receivers of Model 12 duck guns are made from Winchester Proof Steel. This steel was first used in the Model 21 double introduced in 1931. winchester model 12 heavy duck gun 30" simmons vent rib 1953 pre-64 rare 12 ga. magnum 3" edition proof marking - 12 gauge magnum - 5 - 30 " Stock has a Monte Carlo cheekpiece and European pistol grip with a right hand palm swell. View cart for details. Used Winchester Model 12 20 Gauge 26" barrel WS-1 choked skeet Cutts compensator with restriction inserts good condition reduced, Winchester Model 12 Pigeon Grade 12 Gauge. There are currently no customer product questions on this lot. I read your posts; you do love the Model 12, been there done that. Ernie Simmons had a close relationship with Winchester & John Olin; if you find any NSSA ,ATA, Field & Stream and Sports Afield magazines pre-war and post war you'll find he sold plenty of Winchesters out of his gun shop and attended many shoots selling target guns. Rudy was well known with model 12' s and pre-64 model 70's now as far a Felix, he's in a better place now. Has a Cutz on the end of the barrel. Harold Williamson, in his book Winchester, The Gun That Won the West, relates that the new management of Winchester embarked on a program that involved an extraordinary departure from the companys previous operations and the investment of borrowed capital in large amounts. Winchester struggled through a decade of inept product diversification that was terminated by the Great Depression. At Guns.com, if an FFL is The straight grip stock, optional from 1935, was discontinued in the late 1950s. Franklin W. Olin founded Western Cartridge Company in 1898. Winchester ~ Model 12 Custom~ 12 GA Used Guns. The near nine-pound Model 12 duck gun is an anachronism among todays waterfowl hunting shotguns. The takedown joints are tight (See the instructions in Madis book if your Model 12 has a loose take-down joint). Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. THE SHOT GUN IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION , WITH A 28 IN VENTILATED RIB BARREL WITH FULL CHOKE. The survival of both Western and Winchester now depended on Olin management. Reduced bag limits and shell capacities for repeating shotguns were introduced. Bluing is in overall very good condition. 1 9-16" DAC, 1 9-16" DAH, 14 1/2, Very good plus overall condition. George Watrous, a longtime Winchester employee with many talents, was commissioned to investigate the good and bad points of Winchesters pre-war line and make suggestions for postwar improvement. During that time they largely made the right business decisions, hired the right people, and enjoyed a fair share of luck. your community AND if they have it in stock, you can pick your gun up We get the FFL from your store others make you find it, copy it, and fax it. Its been debated over the years if the solid rib model 12 barrel were silver brazed or fused with heat? M, ventilated rib, mid 1950's manufacture, completely original, only one ever produced by Winchester, ultimate rarity for the Model 12 co, 12ga, #1737096, standard gun that has been restocked and has a Simmons ventilated rib added, 12ga, 30 inch barrel, full choke, 2 3/4 inch chamber, 14 3/4 inch LOP with "Decelerator" pad, blu, Winchester Model 12 - 20ga - 26 - Improved Cylinder- NIB - UNFIRED - SN: MT0162 - AS NEW with high figured wood, Winchester Model 12 28 gauge Skeet solid rib. The 30" vent rib barrel is very good with a bright shiny bo, This Winchester Model 12 in 12 Gauge is in good condition with moderate wear to the wood surfaces and light thinning of the bluing on the barrel. In the 1950's Winchester's costs were losing pace with what they were ablle to sell their products for. SN 1231992 Up for sale is a very clean and unique Winchester Model 12 in Pigeon Grade. Market hunting was legislated out of existence in the late teens. For more information: www.p65warnings.ca.gov. It was manufactured in 1962 and is a skeet grade. Skeet gun marked "2 7/8" chamber skeet 28 gauge. 12 Gauge, For sale is the Winchester Model 12. It is possible for the slide lock to fail to unlock the action during recoil. Teal, mallard, widgeon and sprig [pintail] hover singly and in bunches overhead. Buckinghams tests led him to buy his own custom Super Fox, Bo Whoop. Bo Whoop patterned about 90% at 40 yards with specially bored barrels. the shot gun is in very good condition , with a 28 in ventilated rib barrel with full choke. Free shipping for many products! According to the Serial# 1439865, and Winchester manufacturing records, this gun w. 12ga, #366988, 30 inch barrel, 2 1/2 inch chamber, full choke, solid rib, blue finish, straight grip checkered walnut stock, checkered walnut forearm, 13 3/4 LOP with "newer" Winchester pad, 12ga, #1417110, 30 inch barrel, 3 inch chamber, full choke, blue finish, walnut stock and forearm, solid rib, original red rubber pad, 1954. The surge of zooming pinions [wings]! This Model 12 has Serial Number 1391884 was produced in 1953. I would think if you did shoot you proble flinch like heck becouse ther must be a lot of jerk in you. Featherweight: same as above; lightweight alloy trigger guard. at the best online prices at eBay! 30" Full choke barrel. L.O.P. John Olin wanted a new 3-inch .410 shotshell with 3/4-ounce of shot for Winchesters new Model 42. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Winchester Model 12 12 ga 26" oal aftermarket poly choke and vent rib at the best online prices at eBay! Askins stated in Modern Shotguns and Loads: All shotguns which are intended for long range work.should be patterned at 60 yards. Continuing, loads which pattern around 85% [at 40 yards] have that quality which will permit them to continue a pattern on down the range.Askins found that each yard of range beyond 40 yards reduced pattern density by an average of two percent. President Roosevelt signed the law limiting magazine repeaters to three shells for migratory game bird hunting in 1935. seller description. Thought behind it was that a taller rib on the bbl and a higher comb on the stock would help prevent "head lifting". I sold 41 model 12's and 21's at a gun auction in Wichita Kansas to accommodate the move. Ducks Unlimited was born in 1937 to aid in restoration of wetland breeding areas, primarily in Canada. This is why they were rust blued instead of hot blued. An 80% pattern they felt should make it a real 60-yard outfit with No. Standard markings, with matching numbers on the receiver and barrel. Advanced . The latest 2-pin rib gun researched has a serial number of 19114xx with a date of August 26th, 1960. Lay-a-way available for t, Excellent overall condition sporting original finishes. No Reserve. The help you need is to get a life. Madis comments Fancy walnut was considered too fancy for the rough treatment often given a duck gun. Fancy walnut could be ordered and the few pidgeon-grade duck guns had fancy walnut. Down pitch remained 2-1/2 inches with the 30-inch barrel throughout production. A forum community dedicated to Trap shooting enthusiasts. Wood is in very good condition showing very little handling or wear marks. Solid rib model 12 made in 1954. The gun looked to be in excellent condition except some nitwit had inlayed a white plastic diamond in the stock at some point. The Olins bought Winchester for $8.1 million through a combination of $3.3 million cash and the balance in an issue of preferred stock. The duck guns reputation was made with the one and five-eighths ounce load, the heaviest 12 magnum load from about 1935 to the mid-1950s. In 1963, when production ended, Riffles book shows no options available. Tommy, I would be interested in one of the guns you describe. You are correct. Consider the possibility of a hang-fire, an occasional event in 1912, in a gun without the slide lock feature. The lead slug added weight but more importantly maintained the balance point at the takedown joint. organized, dont tell you a lot about what youre buying, and leave you on your Along in the 1920s a few bold souls had long-chambered [3-inch], overbored, long-barreled, and heavy, long range 12-gauge Magnum double guns built. Edwin Pugsley, in charge of Winchester at the time of receivership, is quoted in Williamsons book: The purchase of the company by the Olin interests brought a breath of life to the institution and brought to Winchester many things. In those good old days of the 1960s the ducks flew just above the cattails and shots were plentiful. Save $500.02 SKU: 3226743 . Winchester Model 12 12 ga 30 in Barrel 2 3/4" Full vent rib Barrel NICE! McIntosh notes that the Super-X shotshell was a breakthrough to the modern age of shotgun ammunition. In a full-page ad in the September 1926 issue of the American Rifleman, Western claimed Killing power 15 to 20 yards beyond the effective range of ordinary loads.This was based on a documented reduction in stringing of the shot charge, from about 20 feet to about 4 feet, at 42 yards. The slide handle of early duck guns was round with 18 circular grooves. I wish I had them back! By signing up you agree to Guns.com's It is not as slow or pokey as one might expect. The staff shot skeet with the gun and concluded It is not as fast as the standard Model-12, but nearly so., In further shooting tests the staff found We could not discern any practical difference in recoil effect when shooting standard three inch heavy duck loads. Winchester supplied two boxes of 3-inch shells loaded with 1 3/8-ounces of #5 chilled shot pushed by four drams equivalent of powder. Many online gun sales actually take away from your local Has 30" barrel choked Full. Alex, we don't have enough info to give you an informed opinion. In duck shooting the proportion of magazine guns in use is much higher, probably four men in five using the repeater. Askins added, Fact is, personally, I have always thought that I was surer on the second bird with a repeater than I was with a double gun. On gauges for duck hunting: No fault is to be found with the twelve [gauge] as a duck gun, whether in double barrel with 3 inch cases or in repeaters with 2 3/4 inch.